FireNet Community
February 21, 2018, 01:20:00 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: It is with deep regret that the Webmaster, Colin Simpson, and I have to inform the forum that Alan Kurnatowski (Kurnal) passed away on the 17th April.
Colin T & Colin S have provided an obituary in the fire safety forum
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Specialised housing...  (Read 2504 times)
massive1969
Newbie
*
Posts: 13


« on: April 06, 2017, 05:40:26 AM »

After some advice please...

A residential building in has been adapted to cater for 3-4 young people, each of which have conditions such as behaviour difficulties, learning difficulties, Autism, ADHD, aggressive behaviour, cerebral palsy, etc. All under the age of 15.  There is also 2 staff sleeping.

Staff advise that all occupants are ambulant however do need some assistance as they can hear the alarm but are not aware what to do. But I'm concerned that some of the conditions can deteriorate quite quickly.

Due to safety of the individuals themselves and also others, the bedroom doors are locked from the outside with a Yale key each night.

Now there is a load of other issues with this in the fact that a] some young people require 2:1 help to control them, and they only have 2 members of staff [so what happens with the other young people if an evacuation is required??] and b] the PEEPs are very generic and dont help much.

But, do you feel its ok that the bedroom doors are kept locked overnight?? I can't see any other option but to make sure staff have a robust system to ensure that the bedroom keys are readily available in an emergency evacuation??  Or they change the mechanisms to have thumb turns on the outside of the doors which can be locked overnight, but quickly opened without a key in the event of an emergency.

Also, the doors [which appear to be FD30s but not 100% sure above fire resistance levels] have no self-closers. Again, I was going to make this a requirement to upgrade to include self-closers, as I dont feel the occupants evacuation would be hindered by these...but again, your experience and thoughts are always great to hear!

Lastly, do they HAVE to be FD's??  Someone is saying that standard doors but with smoke control (strips and seals) would be adequate??

As a guide, we've looked at HTM88, DCLG guide to sleeping risks and Fire Safety in Specialised Housing, but anyone with experience of these types of places, please feel free to chip in!

Cheers
Logged
Tom Sutton
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2258


« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2017, 03:56:14 PM »

What's the difference in care homes with vulnerable residents were they secure the final exit doors to prevent wandering?
Logged

All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.
Bruce89
Full Member
***
Posts: 128


« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 07:26:12 PM »

Locking of individuals is not uncommon, psychiatric units with occupants with serious issues are often locked in their rooms at night both for their own safety and the safety of other "service users"
Logged
Owain
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 414


« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 11:36:10 PM »

Secure psychiatric hospitals, prisons etc will probably be designed with fire-retardent furnishings etc in to reduce the fuel availability, and in secure hospitals access to lighters for smoking will be controlled.

This place may have more 'domestic' style furnishings, and smoking is likely to be discouraged/prohibited encouraging covert smoking.

Also do any of the residents have fire-raising tendencies?

A problem with simple thumb-turn locks outside is that a resident could be locked in a room (or released) by another resident. Locks with break-glass release might be suitable (if the glass itself isn't a hazard)

http://www.imperiallocks.co.uk/fire.htm

as discussed for 'escape rooms' here

https://www.crisis-response.com/forum/index.php?topic=7169.msg76317#msg76317
Logged
massive1969
Newbie
*
Posts: 13


« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2017, 06:41:25 AM »

Thanks for all the comments so far.

Yes, I must admit I was horrified when I first heard they locked the young people in their rooms at night, but have read to understand that this is common practice in such housing where individuals will either a) harm others or b) harm themselves.  Several of the young people in this example have anger issues brought on by their conditions and become violent without warning.  They can also self-harm so their rooms are adapted especially.

The individuals do not have tendencies to start fires, but their conditions could lead to this.

An idea someone else came up with was having electronic locks on the doors which can be interfaced with fire alarm (which is a BS5839-1 system) that releases all locks when actuated.  Also, the thumb turn idea - all young people are locked in their rooms at same time, so there is no chance of anyone other than staff unlocking the doors.
Logged
David Rooney
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 887


WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 06:49:34 PM »

Is there a staff alarm to wake the sleeping carers or have you got a sounder in each bedroom do wake the clients? .... I could imagine that could cause a few issues at 3 in the morning !
Logged

CTA Fire - BAFE SP203 - F Gas Accredited - Wireless Fire Alarm System Specialists - Established 1985 - www.ctafire.co.uk
Natural Born Cynic
Owain
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 414


« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 10:22:23 AM »

Also, the thumb turn idea - all young people are locked in their rooms at same time, so there is no chance of anyone other than staff unlocking the doors.

There must be a significant chance - there are 4 youngsters, some of whom need 2:1 for control, and 2 staff. Therefore if 2 staff are controlling A, that leaves 3 others. So you could have B unlocking and going into C's room and assaulting C, then D locks them in the room together so C can't escape, D then runs amok elsewhere ... and at some point the alarm sounds.

So do the 2 staff evacuate A, go to C's room and unlock and release B and C, or go and find D, or look for the cause of the alarm?

I expect in an 'adapted residential' building the corridors aren't a sterile area either.
Logged
wee brian
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2406


« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2017, 11:12:28 AM »

Its not directly relevant but this is what the boys in blue use

https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/detention-and-custody-2/custody-management-and-planning/#fire-safety

The detailed guidance isn't on line - annoying but an attempt, I think, at keeping it from the crims.
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!