FireNet Community
October 17, 2017, 06:59:15 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: It is with deep regret that the Webmaster, Colin Simpson, and I have to inform the forum that Alan Kurnatowski (Kurnal) passed away on the 17th April.
Colin T & Colin S have provided an obituary in the fire safety forum
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Child Care Premises  (Read 2707 times)
Mr. P
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 679


« on: January 26, 2017, 08:54:30 AM »

Any 'legal' suggestions to help prevent the little darlings who, have learnt how bashing the panic bars on doors, aids their escape? Moving the hardware or changing it may not be an option due to costs. One stressed carer/staff had resorted to 'chains' (on the doors not the kids) but luckily the sins of that were quickly pointed out and, that part of the issue dealt with. Apparently, just telling the kids not to bash the bars, just gives encouragement - HMMM!
Logged
Bruce89
Full Member
***
Posts: 131


« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 09:47:55 AM »

Not sure how strong these little uns are but a quick and easy solution may and I stress may, could be cable ties like you often see in supermarkets. Are panic bars really needed in this case though? Probably not bearing in mind I suspect there is constant supervision and escorted evacuation required.
Logged
SeaBass
Full Member
***
Posts: 148


« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 12:47:06 PM »

Definitely NOT CABLE TIES. The breaking strain  of such devices is way in excess of anything that could be accepted on an exit door. The ties used in supermarkets are easy break security tags. I?ve looked into this before, and although they are commonly used on exit doors, there is no standard for their manufacture or for the required breaking force.  I?ve also seen broken security tags replaced with cable ties, which made the door impassable without the aid of a knife, snips or scissors.   
Logged
SeaBass
Full Member
***
Posts: 148


« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 12:53:29 PM »

If this is a child care facility, then the children will be supervised at all times by a trained and responsible adult. In this case, it would be reasonable to fit a ?Door Open? alarm which staff can easily respond to and prevent Houdini Jnr escaping .  I have been involved in schools for children with special needs and behaviour issues where additional security devices were fitted to the doors, and the risk managed by ensuring that the devices could be easily disabled by an adult and  having trained adult staff present at all times.
Logged
Bruce89
Full Member
***
Posts: 131


« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 06:16:41 PM »

You're right seabass, cable ties was an incorrect description on my part, oops  Shocked
Logged
Owain
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 396


« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2017, 12:47:43 PM »

Apparently, just telling the kids not to bash the bars, just gives encouragement - HMMM!

Depends on the age and mental capacity of the child, but I suspect that the 'telling' isn't being done in a sufficiently effective manner.

Logged
Mr. P
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 679


« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 10:26:04 AM »

Thanks. As bars are already fitted, I think to raise the height out of the reach of of the small people may be the way. Irrespective of how well trained staff are, there may always be one or two toddlers who will have a bash at the most un-opportune time! Maybe motorway style plastic crash barriers would do - without being filled with water or concrete!!!
Logged
kurnal
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6510



WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 02:37:31 PM »

High level thumb turns are usually acceptable to the authorities provided there are supervisory adults present at all times who can reach them, and any other adults present or visiting are fully aware and able to reach them.
Logged

Fire Monkey
Full Member
***
Posts: 111


« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 03:06:22 PM »

Hello,

Is this sleeping accommodation i.e. a Children's Home or like in a Youth Centre? Are the little delights trying to escape (run away), go out for a fag at night, let an un-authorised person in (for 'activities') or just too lazy to walk to the normal exit?

I would recommend a door contact alarm system that alerts staff the door is opened. Is sleeping accommodation alarms can be fitted to the bedroom doors to alert waking or sleeping staff.

Is the issue escape or door damage?

You could try fitting Redlam Bolts.
Logged
Messy
Full Member
***
Posts: 227


« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 07:35:32 PM »


You could try fitting Redlam Bolts.

Redlam bolts and panic bars on what appears to be a multifunction community hall??? I am not sure I like the sound of that

What age are the kids? What circumstances are there where these kids find themselves there? Is it a youth group, cubs or guides? Instead of welding the door closed, how about 'discipling' the kids? (with instruction or sanctions rather than cable ties!!!)

Logged
Mr. P
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 679


« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2017, 12:38:53 PM »

OoH Err Monkey, hold that thought!
This is a pre school.

Hi K, Also thought of thumb turns but that goes against single action opening with the bars staying in place. There are external security issues to just remove bars and have thumbys. Trying to help keep cost down for any alterations.

My main recomendation is i d any repeat 'offenders', better training in 'taking control' for staff, etc.

Messy, I took a boot load of gaffer tape and the 'head' teacher was NOT impressed with my first idea!!!
Logged
kurnal
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6510



WWW
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2017, 02:39:39 PM »

It's sometimes necessary to make compromises to balance other risks and from a safeguarding point of view young children wandering out of care is a huge risk and it sounds like it's present all the time.

I have often made such compromises in similar premises to incorporate two mechanisms always subject to adult supervision and presence at all times and other issues listed above. Panic bars don't really sound appropriate either as part of the solution but if you are stuck with them .....
Logged

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!