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 on: Today at 02:51:26 PM 
Started by hammer1 - Last post by hammer1
Just point them at the building regs - AD B covers this

They have stated only 2 of the 3 requirements need to be implemented in reference to ADB (section 5.11)?

 on: Today at 01:16:10 PM 
Started by SeaBass - Last post by Mike Buckley
Colin at the risk of going off topic, if I remember correctly there was a lot more politicking and clan rivalry going on in that incident and wasn't it another clan (the Campbells) who actually did the dirty deed?

 on: March 23, 2017, 08:41:09 PM 
Started by SeaBass - Last post by colin todd
SeaTreble, the wee fellow is right-PAS 79 is a BSI publication.  However, I reproduce the following extract in the hope it might help you along with my subsequent comments.:

It follows, therefore, that the fire risk assessment
can only validly be carried out on premises that
are in use, so that the actual working conditions,
practices and procedures can be taken into
account. The fire risk assessment required by the
relevant fire safety legislation (see 3.76), to which
this PAS refers, cannot be carried out at the design
stage of a new premises, nor is it a means for
snagging fire precautions in a newly constructed
premises prior to occupation.

If the FRS turn up on day 1 there might be a breach of the FSO, but even if they were silly enough to issue an EN for this, they couldnt give less than 28 days for the breach to be rectified which is masses of time.  They could only prosecute if the breach resulted in the risk of death or serious injury in case of fire.  If the building has been built correctly, and proper management has been put into place, no such risk will occur.

BruceAlmighty, would you have bought the  car from an English fire officer?  I do confess I would trust the many good personal friends I have made within many FRS but would not be sure of the rest, nor, institutionally, would I trust some of their employers, though I confess they have always paid their bills!
See the thing about we Scots is that we are a bit black and white- we love everyone and trust them without question until they let us down.  Then, its simple- we never trust them again.  Look what happened to old man McDonald in 1692- he trusted the letter of safe passage from the English Governor at Fort William and then experienced the duplicity of King William, when he signed the order for one of the earliest attempts at genocide.

 on: March 23, 2017, 08:20:21 PM 
Started by Piglet - Last post by colin todd
I think that it is your prerogative if you wish to do so Wullie, subject to care over accuracy in reporting.

 on: March 23, 2017, 04:09:01 PM 
Started by Messy - Last post by Messy
I have recently carried out a FRA in a large office building with 6 lobbied staircases of 10 floors. I am trying to determine control measures for staircase ventilation. This would not be my 'specialised subject' if I were to appear on Mastermind so I am struggling a bit!


Staircases 1 to 4 are pressurised. No issues here
Both of the other staircases (5 and 6) have what should be openable windows at the head, but no obvious inlets anywhere lower down. Both of the supposedly openable windows are secured and the occupier wants them to stay that way. This requirement is not negotiable

Staircase 6 (with no effective ventilation at the head of the staircase) is also a fire-fighting staircase and the fire-fighting lift is used for the evacuation of disabled persons

Meanwhile, I cannot find any ventilation in any staircase lobby on any floor or any staircase. It will be very difficult to install retrospectively

Control measures:

Lastly - and to throw a spanner or two in the works- the building is Grade 2 listed - and of course the staircases are full of heritage features. It is not possible to fit roof mounted AOVs without question. The fitting of bottom hinged drop down window AOVs might be tricky as significant changes to the historic windows will be required. I honestly doubt this would be acceptable to the occupier or Building Control. The RP does not want English Heritage or BC informed at this time.

Frankly, I haven't got a clue how to vent the staircase lobbies - or even if I need to. Travel distances (two way) to staircases are around 30 to 40m, so not that excessive, and the premises is fitted with an L1 AFD system

My web search for reference material has thrown up loads of info on residential premises but none on commercial premises. And my copy of BS9999 is elsewhere and I can't get it until Tuesday as I am enjoying some time off (as you can see!!! Roll Eyes)

So where do I start?

I know I need to get ventilation on each of the two non pressurised staircases - with the fire-fighting staircase as a matter of priority
But I am not sure if the lobbies need to be ventilated as the TD doesn't seem too bad
Lastly, I am not sure where to look on the web for guidance

Any ideas?Huh

 on: March 23, 2017, 02:20:40 PM 
Started by SeaBass - Last post by wee brian
The PAS is a BSI publication, isn't it......

Anyway its just repeating the legislation. Here follows some random thoiughts

I think its important to separate what a professional FRA might be covering and how the law works.

the day you step into your shiny new building your duties as the RP begin. That includes a risk assessment.

A reasonable person would allow for the fact that it might take you a while to get a fully document risk assessment in place but you should still be considering the risks (which as the Proc Guide says could be different on day 1)

And if one of Colin's good friends from the Fire Authority turn up on day one and they find the building is dangerous then they can and should take steps. (hopefully proportionate ones).

As a pro delivering fire risk assessments then I suppose you cant do a PAS FRA on day 1, it would probably be daft.

Don't forget, a building site is subject to the Order, its transition into an occupied building will require proper consideration.

 on: March 23, 2017, 01:13:00 PM 
Started by SeaBass - Last post by SeaBass
With the original question in mind, I?d be interested in Mr T?s recommendations, as opposed to experiences, bearing in mind that PAS 79 is a CST Ltd publication and your comments about the dastardly English Fire officers.

 on: March 23, 2017, 01:01:13 PM 
Started by The Colonel - Last post by Mike Buckley
Suggest you look at the topic "Run off Insurance" in this heading.

 on: March 22, 2017, 11:44:18 PM 
Started by The Colonel - Last post by The Colonel
Has anyone looked into or given any thought to any insurance cover they may need when retirement looms and us risk assessors and consultants want to feel secure. Currently public liability and professional indemnity insurances are taken out by most of us just in case, what happens when we want to retire, do we need any insurance cover or do you stop paying when we finish.

Any thoughts or info around.

 on: March 22, 2017, 08:51:22 PM 
Started by SeaBass - Last post by Tom Sutton
Thanks William

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